The Alfa 4C is going to be a huge bust in the US, so you should buy one

"highmodulus" (highmodulus) 03/05/2014 at 15:35 • Filed to: Afla 4C collector cars Fiat

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While the Alfa 4C is pretty car, there are several huge problems that will likely doom the car here (and likely elsewhere).

1. Alfa's well earned reputation for poor quality and massive, jaw dropping depreciation. Top Gear UK had a good discussion on this point. Alfa's reputation in the US is even worse.

2. It is really expensive, especially for that engine. And for the real world version with A/C, US safety ect, the performance will be less than the media car tuner specials. "Oh, and the 4C has no muffler." Just like the production car. . .

3. For the track car set, Lotus still exists. For the road car set, Porsche still exists. Both make a better car for equal money (or less for a lightly used Lotus).

4. Fiat's distribution plans seem to be designed to ensure that as few people as possible will be able to easy see one in a dealership. It is not like Maserati dealerships are exactly common for most people. The first 400 will be "Launch Editions" likely to make the pricing issue with the Cayman acute.

5. Its got a whole bunch not very exotic parts, despite its likely high initial pricing. From a Car & Driver article: "The twin-cam engine is basically an alloy version of the base Giulietta's cast-iron 1.7, but with improved air and fuel delivery and 21.8 psi of boost." And the news is worse on the gearbox front:

"Buttons? Modes? Yes, the 4C comes only with a six-speed dual-dry-clutch automatic, a version of which is in the Dodge Dart. No doubt that's a deal breaker for some of you." Yeah, you can say that again. Car & Driver drops even more cold water:

"Things you should know: Alfa trumpets a base curb weight of fewer than 2100 pounds, but U.S.-bound models will be about 2650, which factors in two side and two knee airbags, other mandated equipment, and a number of options that will likely be standard here, including air conditioning, power seats, and parking sensors. A "quiet" exhaust with a muffler will be offered. Whether the U.S. will even get the open pipes, and whether John Q. will be able to buy a 4C for anything even remotely close to the base price, are unknowns."

So much heavier, likely much more expensive, no straight pipes or journo-only tuning and some poor distribution choices mean this is likely to be an expensive flop, especially in the US. And that's a very good thing.

Poor sales are likely to mean good values for initial acquisition once half of the Launch Editions are stuck to the dealer floors or resold at big loses by their initial owners. Say these sell for $65k and don't do well. Fiat (always short on cash) pulls the plug again in the US (and elsewhere). Facing "orphan" status yet again, resale values tank (again, not a daring prediction on an Alfa not called 8C). Now you, the enterprising Jalop swoop in and pick one up used for $30-35k lightly used. You will have a super interesting car, and with the low sales and production numbers, a possible future collector's classic. Many classics followed this pattern in the past, and I think the 4C is a prime candidate to do so in the future.

Quotes from:

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2014-a…

Saracen > highmodulus 03/05/2014 at 15:39

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I do very much like the 4C, and it will be remaining on my radar.

You can also critisize some of the downmarket components, but I can't recall a publication who has not said it is an absolute blast of a car. To some that's all that will matter.

Brian Silvestro > highmodulus 03/05/2014 at 15:39

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That's how I plan on getting one.

Kookanoodles > highmodulus 03/05/2014 at 15:43

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Power seats ??? What for ?

Kursa > highmodulus 03/05/2014 at 15:45

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I plan on buying one when I can afford it, so about a decade. By then ,y wallets "up" and the cars price "down" should meet at a cozy location.

hethoughtofcars > highmodulus 03/05/2014 at 15:46

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1. Alfa's well earned reputation for poor quality and massive, jaw dropping depreciation. Top Gear UK had a good discussion on this point. Alfa's reputation in the US is even worse.

If this were say, an Alfa Giulietta, I might agree with you. This is a quasi-exotic sports car from a car with legendary sports car status. This is not an Alfa Camry and does not need to live up to the mainstream ideal. Remember Fiat overcame the "fix it again, tony" jokes with the 500, clearly a niche vehicle. Even MINI, despite having virtually no reputation in the US and now with a terrible reputation for reliability has ridiculously low depreciation.

highmodulus > Saracen 03/05/2014 at 15:48

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They have all been driving the straight pipe, 2100 pound journo only version (see e.g. Chris Harris reveal on the super hot press car Ferraris). Not the 2700 pound legal muffler/cats equipped version the US will actually receive. And for a buyer with $65k to spend on a coupe, those things may play a factor.

If you can get one used for $30-35k, those things should not be a factor. Although the lack of a stick makes me a sad panda. Although for $30k for a two year old dentist owned used version, I would be a sad panda with an Alfa.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > hethoughtofcars 03/05/2014 at 15:50

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I would also argue that Alfa doesn't really have a reputation in the US. They haven't sold a car there for nearly 30 years, bar the 8C.

Nearly a fresh start.

Roberto G. > highmodulus 03/05/2014 at 15:53

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...reputation... like if I shouldn't marry your sister, because your grand-grandmother was the Saloon Belle ...

highmodulus > Kookanoodles 03/05/2014 at 15:53

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I guess because that's what Fiat thinks buyers with $65k want? Seeing its distributed through Maserati dealerships, they are clearly thinking upscale. I don't agree, but their dumb decisions mean a cheaper used 4C for us, so keep up the fine work Fiat!

highmodulus > hethoughtofcars 03/05/2014 at 15:57

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"The twin-cam engine is basically an alloy version of the base Giulietta's cast-iron 1.7, but with improved air and fuel delivery and 21.8 psi of boost."

And the Top Gear discussion was on a new Alfa, pointing out the amazing bad depreciation in the UK still. And I expect that trend to hold on the 4C. Which is good if you want one on the cheap (and for collectors status later).

davedave1111 > highmodulus 03/05/2014 at 16:03

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To be fair, the reason for Alfa's depreciation isn't just build quality. It's also because no-one buys an Alfa and then drives it gently. You know you're getting one that's been hooned if you buy secondhand.

It's a "Porch-uh" > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 03/05/2014 at 16:04

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The people that are more likely to be able to afford a 4C are the people old enough to remember Alfa in the states. If they didn't own one, they knew somebody who did.

Soloburrito > highmodulus 03/05/2014 at 16:06

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I just want to see these racing in TUSCC.

hethoughtofcars > highmodulus 03/05/2014 at 16:14

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And the Top Gear discussion was on a new Alfa, pointing out the amazing bad depreciation in the UK still.

I don't think the markets are comparable. Alfa never left the UK market. I would look more to Fiat's success in its re-introduction to the US market.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > highmodulus 03/05/2014 at 16:19

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1. Alfa has jaw-dropping depreciation in the UK. Not so on the continent, and there isn't any data for the US that isn't 30 years old. A more insightful (although still not particularly accurate) example would be to check the depreciation rates on the 8Cs that sold in the US.

2. The expense might be an issue, but cheap speed doesn't really sell that well any more. Certainly not in the numbers needed to make it a good proposition vs luxury speed.

The engine might be an issue. People can be a bit naive when it comes to cylinders and displacement. What you're paying for though is the least expensive supercar-spec carbon fibre chassis money can buy. Seriously, the next cheapest car with a carbon tub is the McLaren 12C at $239,000.

Also, the 500 Abarth has no muffler in stock form. The cat plus the turbo does the silencing. That's how they manage to make them sound half decent. It's a shame the US-bound ones will be quieter, but that's hardly a permanent thing.

3. Lotus doesn't sell the Elise or Exige in the US anymore do they? You could get an Evora, but that's inbetween the 4C and the Cayman on the lightweight-to-GT spectrum.

The Porsche will be the trickiest rival. I doubt they'll sell them in the sorts of volume that Porsche does, but I don't think they were expecting to. We'll have to wait and see on that one.

4. This one I'm worried about. Their dealership network isn't great. That will most likely be a problem. I'd recommend giving some to the best performing Fiat dealers, but I'm not on Fiat's payroll.

5. This always perplexes me. The LS was used in both the Corvette and a minivan. Didn't hurt it there. The N54B30 was used in the 1-series and the 5-series. Didn't hurt it there. The EJ25 was used in the Forester and the STi. Same thing.

If anything, there's been more development gone into this engine than any of those three.

It just seems such a piffling thing to quibble about, and the same goes for the gearbox. Sharing mechanicals is an industry staple. They've just elected to point it out in this instance to stir up some controversy.

I do like the idea of picking one up with our colossal UK depreciation though :) provided it actually happens to them. They are a bit limited-edition.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > It's a "Porch-uh" 03/05/2014 at 16:39

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Very good point, I didn't consider that.

I'd hope people who are old enough to remember Alfa in the States, and are successful enough to be considering one, are also intelligent enough to realise that a lot changes in 30 years.

I get the nasty feeling that I'm wrong about that though.

It's a "Porch-uh" > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 03/05/2014 at 16:44

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I generally feel that people are dumb (even the people that can afford to drop $65K on a "toy"), so you might be wrong there.

oldirtybootz > highmodulus 03/05/2014 at 16:50

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If I had the money, I'd have one in my driveway. I couldn't care less about how "inferior" it is to a Cayman or whatever Lotus they still sell here. And I say that as someone who loves Porsche and Lotus.

duurtlang > highmodulus 03/05/2014 at 17:07

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1. Alfa's well earned reputation for poor quality and massive, jaw dropping depreciation. (...) Alfa's reputation in the US is even worse.

Alfa's reputation for poor quality is based on the relatively distant past. Depreciation is based on emotion, UK emotion on a brand that's been present for a long time is very different from the emotion in the culturally totally different US where Alfa hasn't been present in a long time. The reputation in the US isn't worse, it's different. I think this is a very poor argument against the Alfa.

highmodulus > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 03/05/2014 at 17:23

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I am super jealous of your used market.

TheStraightSixKid > highmodulus 03/05/2014 at 22:38

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What if it dose do well, then what.

highmodulus > TheStraightSixKid 03/06/2014 at 08:49

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1. I would be surprised.

2. We would see some copycats. And this would help the Maserati dealerships greatly.

3. It may get Fiat to throw some money at the 4C program, maybe moving a better engine into it like the 8C got.

TheStraightSixKid > highmodulus 03/06/2014 at 11:01

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Well if it does do well i hope it will convince Fiat to bring the Alfa spider to the U.S.A. instead of the Fiat spider.

highmodulus > TheStraightSixKid 03/06/2014 at 11:26

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The crazy Miata platform rumors thing would be more likely. Fiat is under pressure to make more cars in Italy too.

TheStraightSixKid > highmodulus 03/06/2014 at 11:43

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Ya it would be a good way to generate jobs for Italy's Economy.

DipodomysDeserti > highmodulus 03/09/2014 at 18:31

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Wait, so the Abarth will weigh less and sound better than the 4c. WTF alpha?

MN > highmodulus 03/09/2014 at 20:29

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Wrong, sir. It will not be a bust in the U.S. because Fiat will never get it here. Alfa will never return to these shores.

willkinton247 > highmodulus 03/09/2014 at 20:29

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I will say this: the local Fiat dealer has a waiting list at least 20 deep for these things of people who have already put money down.

captain_spleen > It's a "Porch-uh" 03/10/2014 at 06:26

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Would people old enough to remember Alfa in the States be able to get in and out of a 4C?

chriswhotakesphotos > hethoughtofcars 03/10/2014 at 08:22

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I told a woman once about her Dodge Dart's relationship to the Giuletta and she thought it was awesome. I had to repeat "alfa romeo" for her because she forgot which make I'd mentioned, but she seemed really jazzed to have found that out about her car.